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New websites served by Meta for REBOL-using operating systems Syllable and Syllable Server _3_

Started by Sergey_Vl on 11-Apr-2022/19:12:58-7:00
Sergey_Vl — 11-Apr-2022/19:12:58-7:00
Sorry. Accidentally broke the previous thread. I duplicate it: Attempt 2. --------------------------------------- I am using my Meta language to create and serve new websites for the Syllable, Syllable Server (Linux) and AtheOS operating systems: https://syllable.metaproject.frl I am designing Meta to be used in Syllable itself in the future, and replace the current roles of REBOL and ORCA in them. Kaj de Vos 10-Apr-2022/8:19:59-7:00 --------------------------------------- Why would Russia add political spam to a page and display a shortened version of it? Not all nationalities are allowed to use Syllable and Metaproject? :) https://syllable.metaproject.frl/ For Russia: ... <title>Syllable, a User Friendly, POSIX Compatible Operating System</title><style> ... </head><body><p><em>Evacuation of Irpin, 26km west of Kyiv.</em></p><p><iframe width=\"400\" height=\"500\" frameborder=\"0\" src=\"https://www.bbc.com/news/av-embeds/60651801/vpid/p0bsxzw3\"></iframe></p><blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"500\" data-dnt=\"true\"><p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/yuliatymosha/status/1500866126087172102\">7 &#1084;&#1072;&#1088;. 2022, Zavorychi</a></p></blockquote><p><script async=\"\" charset=\"UTF-8\" src=\"https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js\"></script></p><p><em><a href=\"https://facebook.com/prrtp.gaisumova/posts/477905137041267/\">7 &#1084;&#1072;&#1088;. 2022, Ukrainians protesting while Russian military drives by.</a></em></p><p><em>Arrest of Yelena Osipova, St Petersburg.</em></p><p><iframe width=\"400\" height=\"500\" frameborder=\"0\" src=\"https://www.bbc.com/news/av-embeds/60600983\"></iframe></p><blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"500\" data-dnt=\"true\"><p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/3TrAmvL026aJRar/status/1497195337089490945?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">25 &#1092;&#1077;&#1074;&#1088;&#1072;&#1083;&#1103; 2022, &#1044;&#1077;&#1090;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081; &#1089;&#1072;&#1076; &#1074; &#1040;&#1093;&#1090;&#1099;&#1088;&#1082;&#1077;</a></p></blockquote><p><script async=\"\" charset=\"UTF-8\" src=\"https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js\"></script></p><p><em><a href=\"https://ru.bellingcat.com/novosti/ukraine/2022/02/28/ukraine-conflict-tracking-use-of-cluster-munitions-in-civilian-areas-ru/\">&#1042;&#1090;&#1086;&#1088;&#1078;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1077; &#1074; &#1059;&#1082;&#1088;&#1072;&#1080;&#1085;&#1091;: &#1086;&#1090;&#1089;&#1083;&#1077;&#1078;&#1080;&#1074;&#1072;&#1085;&#1080;&#1077; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1084;&#1077;&#1085;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1103; &#1082;&#1072;&#1089;&#1089;&#1077;&#1090;&#1085;&#1099;&#1093; &#1073;&#1086;&#1077;&#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1087;&#1072;&#1089;&#1086;&#1074; &#1074; &#1078;&#1080;&#1083;&#1099;&#1093; &#1082;&#1074;&#1072;&#1088;&#1090;&#1072;&#1083;&#1072;&#1093;</a></em></p><div style=\"margin: 4% 5% 0 4%\"><img width=\"100%\" src=\"/images/Syllable-logo.png\" alt=\"[Syllable logo]\" /> </div><div style=\"margin-left: 10%; margin-right: 10%; text-align: right\"><h2>A user friendly, POSIX compatible operating system</h2><h3 style=\"margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; padding: 0 0 0 0; background: white; font-style: italic\">Reducing software waste</h3></div><br /> <p>Welcome on the new web site for the Syllable operating system project. Syllable is a unique and complete operating ... Page size 7 kb. For other countries: ... <title>Syllable, a User Friendly, POSIX Compatible Operating System</title><style> ... </head><body><div style=\"margin: 4% 5% 0 4%\"><img width=\"100%\" src=\"/images/Syllable-logo.png\" alt=\"[Syllable logo]\" /> </div><div style=\"margin-left: 10%; margin-right: 10%; text-align: right\"><h2>A user friendly, POSIX compatible operating system</h2><h3 style=\"margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; padding: 0 0 0 0; background: white; font-style: italic\">Reducing software waste</h3></div><br /> <p>Welcome on the new web site for the Syllable operating system project. ... Page size 20 kb. including significantly more information and download links. Sergey_Vl 11-Apr-2022/18:02:39-7:00 ---------------------------------------
Kaj — 12-Apr-2022/7:29:40-7:00
I am glad you noticed. It is not spam and Russia didn't add it. I did, as a small contribution of solidarity with Ukraine and the Russian people. As you know, Russia and Belarus are being sanctioned. Not only by governments, but also by other organisations and individuals who cannot accept their actions. Because Meta is meant more for the people than for the powers that be, I decided not to apply sanctions to it. Syllable has always had a good Russian audience. I decided to use this to attempt to supply them with some important information that is being withheld from them. Since I did so, most of the sources I link to have been officially blocked by Russia. Also, Yandex bots immediately became extra interested in my site and human visits from Russia stopped almost completely. It looks like Russia is sanctioning itself by blocking my site. Pages are not generated automatically yet. Also, every day comes with news of an even greater atrocity. As this is the Kremlin´s policy, they have succeeded in tiring me of updating the Russian page. I have done so now, and will do so now and then at milestones, but not with every update of the site as long as it isn't automated.
Sergey_Vl — 12-Apr-2022/22:21:58-7:00
As the creator of Meta, you can, for example, include in the license text a ban on its use for illegal and military purposes. Unfortunately, the reliability of the information presented by you is doubtful, and is not complete, because the second side is not presented. (For some reason, I remember the Ukrainian video with the bombing of Paris https://youtube.com/shorts/5MnVI-phsFg?feature=share) Your site is not blocked in Russia and is available exactly in the volume and content in which you issue it to users from Russia (http://ping-admin.com/free_test/result/16498103770jv3n78n2v41zynn2sbp3.html). About Yandex bots - they simply index sites, like any other search bots, besides, I sent them a bug report on incorrect display of your site in Yandex-browser (there was a white screen). Possible reasons for the decrease in views from Russia: 1) half of Russia uses VPN and, accordingly, are not displayed as Russia in traffic; 2) if political/propaganda content starts to take over in you, then people lose interest, how site about software technologies. News of an even greater atrocity from who? For example this https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/06/world/ukraine-russia-war-news#russia-pows-ukraine-executed? It seems to me that if you want to get into politics, it is better to do it in a separate section of the site, and not in a common heap. P.S. The first to die in a war is true. This is a civil war that has been going on in Ukraine for more than eight years, after the 2014 coup d'état. To understand a little what is happening, you have to look at a lot of information from both sides and read history. About sanctions - they are not supported by more than 2/3 of the world's population. I also did not notice any sanctions or condemnations the US and NATO for war in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, etc., although more than 10,000,000 civilians were killed there. Also, remember what Julian Assange is on trial for and Edward Snowden is looking for? The conclusion - this is just genocide and Russophobia. Unfortunately, many have joined this, to the punishment of all Russians for being Russians. The US/NATO is sending weapons to Ukraine, not medical supplies, and the diplomat Josep Borrell is demanding a military solution, not a diplomatic one, from which we can conclude what is happening in the world. P.P.S. Sorry by off topic.
Kaj — 22-Apr-2022/8:26:45-7:00
Thanks for that ping service. I will check it now and then. As I said, this does not apply to Meta, and not even to the old Syllable website, but to the new Syllable website. It's not politics, just simple humanity. There is no excuse for what Russia is doing to Ukraine. You will have to take my word that I hold nuanced views of history and Russia's place in it. I am not Russophobic. I spent a lot of time over the years creating and maintaining a Russian version of the Syllable website and Russian fonts and translations in Syllable itself. I am not the creator of all of Syllable, so I can't change the licences. There is no point in banning illegal use in a licence. This is always implied. I know about the non-military software licence and am sympathetic to it, but it does not conform to open-source definitions, and it wouldn't help in the current conflict one bit. Of course, war is about trampling on someone else's legal system. Syllable and Meta are huge works. I do them to improve the world. To allow them to support destruction would undo all my efforts. I do not want to serve people who support this destruction or condone it by staying silent. If people don't use Syllable because they are offended by information about the war, that is what I intend.
Sergey_Vl — 23-Apr-2022/5:58:04-7:00
With your permission, let's not talk about politics here. (or continue on another forum/email if you wish) Is it possible to install and run REBOL/View 2.7.8 on SyllableOS? In the present Rebol 3 (2.100) GUI is not run: ... >>load-gui Fetching GUI... GUI Version: 0.2.1 (Developer test GUI theme) ** Script error: size-ext has no value ...
Kaj — 24-Apr-2022/10:18:56-7:00
R3/Core is included in Syllable 0.6.7, but the R3 GUI never reached production status, and Carl's version was only for Windows. REBOL/View 2 is closed source and thus impossible to port to new platforms. I worked on a graphical version of Syllable Server (called Syllable Workstation) with one of the main goals to run the Linux version of REBOL/View 2. It's hard to get it to work on modern Linux systems. I think I got it to work, but it was so much work to assemble a Linux with the X11 graphical system that I never released Syllable Workstation. One of the reasons to create Meta is the struggle to port a REBOL GUI to one's system of choice. It's very hard to build complete systems out of parts from different projects that are not fully aligned. If you really want to, you could run REBOL/View 2 on some Linux in QEmu or Bochs on Syllable, or perhaps the R3 GUI on Windows or ReactOS in QEmu. If funding becomes available, I could resume the work on Workstation. Failing that, my plan is to implement GUI's with Meta.
Sergey_Vl — 26-Apr-2022/6:03:38-7:00
Atronix version Rebol 3 have a support GUI in Linux (Debian 11.3) (http://pochinoksergey.ru/rebol/temp/r3linux_gui.jpg). And REBOL/View 2 work wondeful in modern 32-bit Linux, on 64-bit need install 32-bit librarys: ... sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install libc6:i386 sudo apt-get install libstdc++6:i386 sudo apt-get install libx11-6:i386 sudo apt-get install libxcb1:i386 sudo apt-get install libxaw7:i386 sudo apt-get install libfreetype6:i386 sudo apt-get install xfonts-100dpi sudo apt-get install xfonts-75dpi ... Syllable Server has a non-trivial setup, I haven't tried it yet. Syllable Workstation to be like TinyCore+REBOL/View?
Sergey_Vl — 26-Apr-2022/6:26:24-7:00
Kaj, have you considered porting Red (https://www.red-lang.org) to Syllable?
Kaj — 26-Apr-2022/6:56:24-7:00
Not only that, we did. I helped launch Red and we developed Syllable and Red in unison so that Syllable was the third or fourth or so supported operating system for Red: https://syllable.metaproject.frl/news/2012-11-18-20-47-Red-high-level-programming-language-first-alpha.html Since then, you can cross-compile Red and Red/System to Syllable, although I haven't checked lately if recent Red versions still work.
Kaj — 26-Apr-2022/7:02:47-7:00
My initial development versions of Syllable Workstation had several existing package managers ported to it, to get software faster. I transplanted GoboLinux on top of it to get X11 and the ROX Desktop. This approach turned out to be too unreliable. I used it for myself, but using other package managers does not provide the control needed to reach production quality. Linux is built up out of enormous numbers of third-party packages, so integrating them in my native Syllable build system and package manager is a lot of work.

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